NEWS

What Obama officials have said about the difficulty of vetting refugees

Maureen Groppe
mgroppe@gannett.com

WASHINGTON — Defending his decision to stop the arrival of Syrian refugees in Indiana, Gov. Mike Pence has cited comments made by FBI Director James Comey and Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson about gaps in data used to screen Syrian refugees. Both testified at congressional hearings last month about the issue. Here are excerpts from the video replay of the Oct. 21 hearing before the House Homeland Security Committee at which the panel’s top Republican and Democrat asked Comey, Johnson and the head of the National Counterterrorism Center about the vetting process.

FBI Director James Comey, right, accompanied by Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, center, and National Counterterrorism Center Director Nicholas Rasmussen, left, testifies  on Capitol Hill in Washington, Wednesday, Oct. 21, 2015, before the House Homeland Security Committee hearing on worldwide threats and homeland security challenges.

Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas: We've had testimony before this committee that we don't have intelligence on the ground in Syria. We can't properly vet these individuals through databases. We don't know who they are …How concerned are you from a security perspective on this, and do you think this will increase your counterterrorism caseload if we bring in 10,000 Syrians into the United States?

Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson: I am concerned that we do the proper security vetting for refugees we bring into this country. We've committed to 10,000, and I've committed that each one will receive a careful security vetting.

It is true that we are not going to know a whole lot about a lot of the Syrians that come forth in this process, just given the nature of the situation. So we are doing better at checking all the right databases in the law enforcement and intelligence communities than we used to. So it's a good process, and it's a thorough process. But that definitely is a challenge.

FBI Director James Comey: I don't think I have anything to add to Jeh. I think he describes it well. We see a risk there. We will work hard to mitigate it. Our challenge will be: As good as we have gotten ourselves at querying our holdings to understand somebody, if the person has never crossed our radar screen, there won't be anything to query against. So we do see a risk there.

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Rep. Bennie Thompson, D-Miss.: Can each of you explain your agency's position on the vetting process for these refugees? A lot of us are concerned about whether or not you have enough information available to you to do an accurate vetting.

National Counterterrorism Center Director Nicholas Rasmussen: As Director Comey suggested, we have a lot of lessons learned in this area from when we went through similar processes over the last several years dealing with other large refugee populations. So I think we have now worked successfully to make sure that every bit of available intelligence information that the United States government holds will be looked at with respect to a potential nexus to someone being screened as a potential refugee.

I certainly feel good about that process, and the degree to which we have tightened that up over time. You can't account for what you don't know, and that goes to the intelligence deficit that I think is embedded in your question.

What we can do, though, is understand where the potential vulnerabilities are so that we are asking in the screening and vetting process the right kinds of questions to give our screeners and vetters the best possible opportunity to make an informed judgment.

It is not a perfect process. There is a degree of risk attached to any screening and vetting process. We look to manage that risk as best we can.

Johnson: Each of us at the table here is acutely aware that in our world, one failure is the equivalent of 10,000 successes. And there are, in fact, lessons we learned from the vetting process with regard to the Iraqi refugees that we took in. The process has improved. We are better at connecting dots, checking the databases with information we have.

My people in (U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services), to do this, will be on the ground in places to vet refugees along with the State Department. But they will do so in consultation with our law enforcement and our intelligence agency partners. And we will do it carefully.

Comey: I don't think I have anything useful to add. I think my views are captured by what both the secretary and director said.

Thompson: So encapsulating what has been said, it's your feeling that our existing systems are robust enough to assure this committee that to the extent practicable no terrorists can get through that process?

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Johnson: Well, the issue we face obviously is what Jim mentioned. We may have somebody who comes to us and is simply not on our radar for any discernible reason. And there may also be the possibility that somebody decides to do something bad after they have been admitted through the process. But we do have a good system in place for the undertaking that we have made.

Thompson: Mr. Director, before this committee, (FBI) Assistant Director Steinbach said that the concern in Syria is that we don't have the systems in place on the ground to collect the information to vet. That would be the concern. Databases don't hold the information on these individuals. Is that still the position of the department?

Comey: Yes, I think that's the challenge we are all talking about, is that we can only query against that which we have collected. And so if someone has never made a ripple in the pond in Syria in a way that would get their identity or their interest reflected in our database, we can query our database until the cows come home, but ... nothing (will) show up because we have no record on that person. That's what Assistant Director Steinbach was talking about. You can only query what you have collected.

And with respect to Iraqi refugees, we had far more in our databases because of our country's work there for a decade. This is a different situation.